John @86 – OK, here goes:
European expansion into the Americas: This would have happened with or without religion. Humans expand, we move into new territories. That is why we are everywhere now. Once the technology to do so existed, the North American natives, still living in the stone age, were doomed. The stronger group always displaces the weaker group. That’s why hunter-gatherers all over the world have usually ceased to exist when they meat an expanding agricultural society. Religion in this case was, as I said, merely window dressing. This would have happened without Christianity just as readily as with.
The African slave trade: Slavery has existed for all of human history in almost every society that has ever existed. This trade would have gone on regardless of Christianity as it had gone on for thousands of years already. The The Romans, the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Sumerians, even the various African nations themselves had done it. Slavery has been the status of almost all humans throughout history. Religion has nothing to do with this issue at all.
The Wars of Religion I’ll give you, though even they were about power over the church and therefore over Europe.
Yes, there was a religious presence in the American Revolution, but it was not the cause, nor even an excuse. The religious destiny that America presumed for itself did not come into play for generations after that.
It fascinates me that you skipped the French Revolution and the Napoleonic wars that followed. The Terrors that followed the Revolution, then over twenty years of war that devastated Europe, throwing of a King to replace him with an Emperor that will try to conquer the world, millions killed for totally non-religious reasons.
The American Civil War: Yes, both sides used religion, especially around the slavery issue, to justify their positions, but religion is not why this war was fought. This was a clash between an industrial and an agrarian society over power and wealth, very secular issues.
WW2: Fear, hate and poverty, couple with a charismatic and probably insane leader is what lead the German people to try to destroy the world, not Hitler’s pagan beliefs. Any group is always happy to be told they are superior, and those in poverty, recently crushed in war will follow that insane charismatic leader anywhere, as they did. Religion here again used as an excuse, not the cause.
Indo-Pakistani conflicts: Those folks had been killing each other since long before Islam existed. Religion just brought new context to the fight. It was only during the brief time that Europeans were controlling the area that their fighting stopped, or at least lessened.
Korean War and Vietnam: Really? Calling Atheism a religion? This were simple wars fought between two opposed superpowers that wanted to rule the world. Any excuse would have done.
The various conflicts around Israel you get, those were primarily about religion, at least on the Muslim side. Surprisingly few Israelis are actually religious. They are often culturally Jewish but have no real faith.
The Iran/Iraq war you don’t get. Those folks have been killing each other since before the dawn of recorded history. Even tho old Sumerian epics talk of it. Persians and Arabs kill each other, regardless of what religion each professes at any given moment. Sure, religion can be used to stir up the masses to fight, but it is again only an excuse.
The various wars that followed the collapse of Yugoslavia: Nope, you don;t get this one either. Yes the participants each had their own religion, but again those conflicts predate the arrival of Abrahamic religion in the area. They stopped killing each other briefly under Tito, and Soviet control, but after all that fell all they did was revert to what they had been doing for thousands of years. Religion agian was used only as an excuse.
9/11 -Certainly religiously motivated. Much of the response to 9/11 was motivated by revenge and greed, religion was only lightly used as window dressing here. As for GWD and God – Do you really think anyone capable of being elected to that office, of any political persuasion, has any god other than himself? They use the idea of God for context, as an excuse for their actions, and to reach the common folk.
Strangely you left out a few major conflicts and almost everything (other than Afghanistan) that the Soviet Union did, and everything that China did. You completely glossed over the vast majority of violent deaths caused in the twentieth century, all the wars you mention add up to a smallish fraction of the deaths caused by just Mao and Stalin.
I am not religious myself, and I think much that most religions do is either despicable or absurd, your shallow belief that the world would be all goodness and light without religion is even more absurd. Wars are caused by humans being humans. We are a greedy, violent species and always have been.
“Well, yes. If you are not a member of people chosen by God, you have little justification for taking what never belonged to you in the first place. You might do it anyway, but likely you will have to do so on your own, or at least with dramatically less help from otherwise kindhearted people who need to be tricked into perpetrating atrocities.”
Wow that is a naive viewpoint. When times are tough few humans need religion to motivate them to violence, all they need is people that have what they want. Respect for the lives and property of others is a very recent development in human history, and we are still not very good about it. Atheism is an even more recent development, and astounding atrocities have been committed by atheists in recent times, atrocities beside which the worst that any religion ever did pales in comparison. Again, it is humans being humans that gives us war, we would have it with or without religion. We, some of us, are trying to get past this, but we are nowhere close yet.
Take off your “I hate religion” goggles and take a good long, dispassionate, skeptical look at history. It is far deeper than you think.
This news has been published by title Byron Allen Left ‘Negro League’ Behind When He Bought The Weather Channel
If the page you permission is mistake or not right to use perfectly, entertain visit the original web in source CLICK HERE
Thank you for your visit to our website, hopefully the opinion we convey is useful, reach not forget to allowance and subscribe our web to get more information.[TAG]1077